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[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]
Alex Walters: What's up everyone? Welcome back to the Learning Curve.
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In this episode, I was joined by Doctor Lisa Langdale, who is an assistant professor for the Office of Interprofessional Initiatives at MUSC.
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In this conversation, we started by discussing her personal background.
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So what brought her to her career at MUSC now?
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Educational experiences. So what is interprofessional education and why was it attractive as a career option?
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We discussed her past and current projects items such as Six Sigma, uh, AI literacy and the AI Institute involvement.
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And then we close the conversation discussing AI and education.
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So what are her experiences directly with AI and what is MUSC doing in this area, and how are we preparing faculty and learners for the future?
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This was an extremely insightful conversation and if you are interested in interprofessional education, this is definitely for you.
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So here is Doctor Lisa Langdale. Um, yeah.
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So this is kind of it. Um, yeah. If you want to just your microphone, just just make sure it's, you know, kind of in front of you.
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Not like. Yeah. Perfect. All right. Awesome. Um, so, um, as I know, I mentioned on our, our pre, our prep call, um, already recording.
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All right. We're just going to kind of, uh, jump into it, uh, have a conversation today about some different things.
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I always like to begin these conversations talking about personal background.
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So I always like to hear, like what our focus is, um, stories like what led them to their current position at MUSC.
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And in reviewing your CV, um, you have a very, um, to me, very interesting kind of pathway to where you are now.
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Um, and that's one reason I want to talk to you because of that pathway and kind of your journey.
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So I wanted to start with that. So tell us about, you know, your journey to where you are now.
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So your, your background. Lisa Lagdale: Um, gosh, I don't know how far back you want me to go,
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but I will say that since middle school, I knew I wanted to be a nurse.
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Okay. Um, so never wavered from that.
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And I always loved education.
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I love school, I was one of those students. Like, I like to go into school.
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I enjoyed learning new things. And nursing is one of those professions that certainly education is key component of that.
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You are teaching patients. You are explaining to family and caregivers what is going on.
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Um, and because health care is always changing, you're always learning, right?
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And I think that embedded in me, the the need to be a lifelong learner.
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Okay. Yeah. And so all through my bedside, um, practice your teaching, you're either, um,
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presenting new graduate nurses or bringing in experienced, seasoned nurses.
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Um, and so I always loved that aspect of education.
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Um, I went down I was I've been at MUSC a really long time.
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And so there were other jobs that I had, other roles that I had in quality improvement, where I learned that,
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um, the first knee jerk reaction in a lot of times was, well, they just need to educate.
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We just need to educate the nurses that they need to do x, y, z.
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Um, and it was until I had the opportunity to go to some quality improvement training and just culture training that I really learned,
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um, how a system and processes can impact, um, behaviors that people have.
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And it's not all about education. Um, that sometimes we set them up to not make the right choice or have the right behavior.
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And so that that changed how I looked at education and training.
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Um, and then I had the opportunity to lead professional development for nurses here at MUSC and then later, um, for another health system.
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Um, and so that became my way of advocating for nurses and for our patients that we need to have, um,
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processes and systems in place that allow staff, um, to minimize the opportunity to make a mistake or an error while training them.
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What is the best care that they went hand in hand together?
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Um, and so that is how education's always been a part of my journey.
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And. There came a point in time where I was like.
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I'm tired of being a leader. Um, I've done it.
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I did it for almost 15 years, and I was ready for a little bit of a change,
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and I learned about the opportunity with the Office of Interprofessional Initiatives
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to join the faculty and teach about interprofessional collaborative practice,
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which was extremely important to me. Nursing it all day is collaborative practice.
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Um, and many of the roles that I had in the, um, neonatal and pediatric critical care units,
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my time spent in, um, pediatric medical transport, all of that involved teamwork.
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And so I was really excited to know we were going to teach future practitioners about how to work together.
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Sure. Um, and that was not something when I went through my nursing program that was taught.
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Interesting. So that was just not part of the curriculum. It wasn't.
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Um, and so I had never I mean, I knew team steps because that was part of the quality improvement training I had gone through in the hospital,
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but it was not part of my undergrad nursing program.
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And to think that MUSC was on the forefront of that and was a national leader in interprofessional education and collaborator practice,
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really meant a lot to me.
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Um, and so I saw it as a way of taking my background in what I, my experiences and being able to help shape future practitioners.
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Sure. Yeah, definitely. Um, so I want to hit on a couple things.
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Um, you said during during your journey there.
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Um, first of all, you said that you wanted to be a nurse very early on and something you just just knew you wanted to be.
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Um, to me, I see a lot of parallels a lot of times with, like, teachers and nurses, like,
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I talked to a lot of teachers, you know, who are like, oh, I knew in middle school I wanted to be a teacher.
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And I've heard nurses say the same thing.
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So, uh, to me it's more like a calling than it is, like anything almost when it comes to these specific type of professions.
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I think that's very interesting. Um, that you brought that up because that's been a theme in other conversations I've had as well.
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I want to dig a little deeper. Um, you were talking about, like, professional development and you started to lead professional development.
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Um, and kind of like, explore that world a little more. And obviously professional development, of course, is teaching.
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And you talked about all the different ways that you taught, um, throughout your career so far.
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What would you say if you could define like your teaching philosophy around, um, professional development or just any type of,
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um, situation where you found yourself having to teach, whether it's a small group, a large group, one on one.
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Uh, talk a little about your philosophy, because I always find this is an interesting point of conversation with folks I talk to as well.
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So I put a little thought into this when I knew you were going to, um, ask about this.
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My initial philosophy, I think just because it's the way we're all taught was constructivism.
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Sure. So, um, there's something you need to know.
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I need to make sure you know it. And I'm going to test and make sure that you do.
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Um, and part of professional development, one of the things that we used was Kirkpatrick's level.
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So making sure not only do you know it and you can pass a test or you can demonstrate that skill,
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but also that you change your behavior and you integrate that into your practice, right?
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And that if you're integrating that into your practice, then there should be a change in patient outcomes or patient improvement.
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Um, and so that was my first, um, way of thinking about it.
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Then I began to think more about progressivism, as I did a little bit of, um, clinical instructor work for the College of Nursing.
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Um, and certainly coming into this role, you, you find out as you're talking to about interprofessional, um,
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teamwork and just teamwork in general, that people have experiences, they have backgrounds, they come from certain cultures.
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Um, and not that we didn't consider that on the professional development side.
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You definitely do. But I think I had the opportunity to really embrace that more in the way we approach learning and teaching to students.
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Um, and so it's probably a blend of both of those at this point in time.
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Like, what is it that you need to know? Um, there's certainly like we talk about Espa.
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So that is definitely something. If you don't know about Espa, you know, I'm going to check you off and say, can you take this case study into it?
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But I'm also going to think about. What is it like if you're working in a clinical area as the tech or, um,
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maybe you have had some experience as a patient where people didn't communicate well, how is that going to impact how you're going to approach this?
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How do you integrate or think you'll integrate these concepts into your practice?
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Will it change how you, um, approach your patients or, um, their caregivers a little bit?
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So, yeah, I'd say it's kind of a blend of those two at this point.
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Alex. So it sounds to me like, um, a couple things that are really important to your context.
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And then like lived experiences are very much like, uh, you prioritize when you think about your teaching philosophy, would you say that's correct?
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I would. Okay, great. Um, so let's, uh, let's go a little deeper into, like, interprofessional education.
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Um, so, um, I've had dusty on this podcast before, who I work with.
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Okay. Yeah. Great. And, uh, we talked about, um, IP on that podcast as well.
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Um, so there's been some time passed since, since since I did that interview.
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So, um, for folks that are listening, could you talk a little about, um,
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just kind of what if you could define in a professional education, what is it exactly?
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Um, and you can also talk about it within context here at MUSC.
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And then, uh, I know you kind of mentioned it before, like, um, MUSC was a leader in this area, and you saw an opportunity to be a part of that.
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Um, maybe go a little deeper on, on what are some other elements of IP that, um, attract you to, to working in this field?
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Um, specifically. Yeah.
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So there is an official definition of interprofessional education, which is when two or more professions learn with, from and about each other.
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Awesome. Um, to improve collaboration and quality care.
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Um, so a lot of that is, um, grounded in roles and responsibilities.
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Um, what do I bring to the table? What do you bring to the table or to the patient's care?
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Um, and understanding that that we all have, uh, an area of expertise that we need to bring.
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And I can give you an example of one that really stood out to me when I was doing some training on the professional development side,
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on the hospital side.
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So, um, right now, given the current, um, news and what is happening in Africa, um, I was in charge when Ebola, we had our first break out,
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and I remember getting a call from our chief learning officer at the time who said, well, what is your team doing about Ebola?
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Um, and it was like a Wednesday. And I was like, um, hold on, hold that thought.
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I'll get right back with you. So I'm calling my educator. So I'm calling around, um, ambulatory, finding out, like, what are we doing?
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Um, and they had started with some education, very basic.
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And I got back with her, and she's like, we are setting up and a bola unit,
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and you need to train everybody to be able to with, um, in case we get a patient.
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Right. Um, and so we put together I'd always said, oh, there's no education emergencies.
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You know, we, we put together education and worked through the weekend to train staff.
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And this was nurses. This was respiratory therapist.
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It was pharmacists. Anybody who might need to come in contact, direct hands on contact with a patient, how they were going to do that,
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how they were going to protect themselves, how they were going to protect others.
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Um, and so that was really my a big foray into collaborative practice and what it's like to train and teach that and how all of the tools,
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communication tools are important. I think that helped me when Covid came around, because then we had sort of been like, oh, we've been through this.
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We know we can handle it.
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Um, but interprofessional education, even though I valued it and knew it was important, I saw the importance of education through those two examples.
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What is that like to actually teach in that moment?
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Um, and so I bring that, I think, to bear in my own expectations of what interprofessional practice should look like, um, with family or myself.
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Um, nothing drives me crazy when they don't communicate.
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Yeah, right. You have, you know, somebody saying this or the note isn't there, or, um,
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they never take your meds off the medication reconciliation list, and you're like.
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But I haven't been on that for two years. Right. Um, and so those.
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That kind of those experiences drove me to say, I want to be able to teach others to do it.
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Um, I've also witnessed that there.
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There can be a lack or that still that hierarchy of us.
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I'm the physician and I know where that comes from.
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Right, right. Um, but that hierarchy doesn't mean that you can't listen and be open to all the team.
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You can't be receptive to other like you're talking about expertise. Yeah, exactly.
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Being receptive to that. So you may be the buck stops here, but I'm going to account for all of that in my experience in the aeromedical transport.
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The pilot had complete control of the aircraft. Right.
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But as a team member, I could say I think it's too foggy to fly.
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I'm not comfortable. Right. Or I see wires or I see another hazard.
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We all were giving input. He had complete control of the aircraft.
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Sure, but he was listening to our input as well.
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And to me, that translates to the bedside with or the clinic or wherever you're practicing, right?
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Um, that team leader is the leader, but they should be open to other insights and practices.
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And I want, no matter who's the team leader, if it's not the physician, if it's, um, a dental dentist.
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Um. Understanding that concept, right?
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I've had other conversations with folks who, you know, have done a lot of work, um, clinically.
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And, uh, we've had conversations about, like, um, treating the patient patient holistically.
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So a lot of different viewpoints, a lot of inputs. You know, while it may stop with this person, as you were mentioning, um,
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there's still a lot of value in collecting all those different, um, all those different types of input from these other professionals.
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Uh, I want to talk a little about the IP student experience at MUSC.
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So can you talk a little about, um, the work you've done, whether, um, it's around,
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you know, of course, design, curriculum design, um, just just working with students.
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Anything you've done, um, to make sure that students are, you know, obviously receiving this IP education at MUSC.
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And what have those efforts been? Yeah. Again, I feel fortunate that we were a leader in this, um, across the country.
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And, and the time that has been set aside by the institution as a whole for interprofessional education.
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So when I joined the faculty, I was given two courses to be course director over.
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And all of our students are required to take two credit hours of interprofessional courses, which is huge, but that doesn't happen.
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Like I said, it didn't happen in my program. It doesn't happen.
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Um, it every program, um, across the country.
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So I was able to step back and say from my clinical background, what would be important?
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And students really want the opportunity to apply what they've learned.
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Right, absolutely. And so giving them structuring the class, um,
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or the online experience depending so that they can have that opportunity to practice and apply what they're reading,
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watching, learning about um, in class is huge for me.
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Um, I do teach, um, a class that is all about health care systems and quality improvement.
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And so giving them a chance to to say, even though you're a student, you have ideas, of course you have input, you can see things.
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And it's how you learn to, um, assess what you think is a problem, just like you would if it were a patient.
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And you're doing your assessment because you're going to try to come up with a diagnosis or treatment,
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you're looking at it that same way and you want input from everyone because everyone sees that issue a little different.
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Right. And giving them the opportunity to do that, um, was really important to me.
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And then the other class that I'm course director for, they actually go into the unit.
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Oh that's exciting. And so they are observing the unit for teamwork and looking for where they see teamwork happening or not happening.
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And we give that feedback to the leadership in the hospital.
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So the manager of that unit, the medical director of that unit, um, and the upper senior leaders get that report about how is that actually happening?
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Right. Um, in your unit, is there teamwork that is observable?
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One of the things that came from that class and student feedback is they were like, you know.
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There are rounds in person and we try to go to those,
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but so much of the conversation is happening by people texting each other or sending pages or putting notes in the medical record.
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Um, and we're really missing that piece of communication, a lot of nonverbal communication.
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Right? Right. Yeah. And so that got me thinking like, oh my gosh, you're right.
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Like this electronic medical record has sort of changed the way we communicate.
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And, um, even what's available and so much data.
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Right. So much about the patient is in this, um, it reminds me when we had paper charts and they would be inches thick.
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Um. And so that got me thinking about how we we begin to talk about what changes,
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what of my teaching that might change in the future, because communication isn't always over the phone or face to face.
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It's happening in a digital mode now, right?
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It's very much change.
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Um, some of you mentioned like paper charts and, um, like the methods of communication are just so much, so much different than they, they used to be.
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Um, this just kind of jog my memory. Um, are you familiar with the TV show The Pit?
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Have you watched that at all? Yeah, I've seen glimpses. Okay. I haven't watched a whole episode.
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Okay. I see trailers and highlights from it.
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Yeah. So hopefully this isn't, like, too much of a spoiler for those of you who are watching it,
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but, um, there's a there's a scene in this past season where,
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um, all the electronic health records go down and they have to they have to go back to using paper, um, to document everything and chart everything.
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And it was very interesting because you do see a shift, even like they did a really good job, um,
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showing the shift in communication in that episode when they had to spend a lot more time talking to each other and making sure that,
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you know, this person was running charts and this person was running, you know,
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lab results and X-rays and it really just you could see the communication dynamic really change.
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Um, so I just want to mention that because we're talking about how communication evolved, it was really interesting to see that at least,
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you know, within a television show, even how how like obviously things would change in an event of like an emergency like that.
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Exactly. And it still happens. I mean, um, I one of the things we talk about is how do we educate the students for the world?
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They're going to Watkins. Right, right. Which for the most part is digital until something something happens, right.
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And then it's not. And so how do you train them for that contingency plan?
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Right, right. They're going to need to know, especially here in Charleston where weather can affect us.
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Absolutely. Have, you know, outages or um, anything can disrupt the status quo.
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But yeah, that's. Yeah, absolutely. What um, the students told me about.
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Okay. Yeah. They witnessed. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, yeah.
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So I love that. That's, uh, it's also very interesting to me that, you know, um, it's very much like closing the feedback loop.
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And I think that's amazing because, um,
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because the students obviously know they're making these observations and it's going to have an impact because those reports are going to be shared.
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And, you know, ideally, like positive change will come from that. So it definitely provides that sense of ownership, which I,
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I'm a really big believer in when it comes to like, um, teaching students, giving them ownership,
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giving them agency, making them feel like, you know,
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decisions or things they are doing can and will potentially have an impact which which I think is exciting.
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I want to switch gears just a little bit. Um, talk about some past and current projects.
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Um, the first one I noted was, um, Six Sigma in IP.
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Can you talk a little about that? Because I've had other guests who have talked about Six Sigma, and I thought it would be an interesting kind of,
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um, conversation to hear from you about it and kind of your work in that area.
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And then we'll move on to everybody's favorite topic. Um, I yeah.
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So like I said, because I had that experience on the hospital side when I came into this role,
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one of the courses for hospital systems and quality improvement offered a yellow belt in Six Sigma.
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So if you're familiar with Six Sigma, um, it is, uh, level training which you progress through different levels of training,
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and you are able to assume more and more responsibility within a quality improvement project.
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Um, so yellow is the very bottom, and then there's a green belt and then a black belt and then a master black belt.
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And, uh, we wanted to continue to offer a yellow belt certificate and Six Sigma to students who wanted to do it.
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Um, and so it is, um, for me, the opportunity for students to work together to take a case study and say what is broken here?
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So one of the case studies is around medication, um, a medication error that has, um, harm to a patient.
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And we make it very dramatic because it's a pediatric patient who dies because of this medication error.
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And so it is teaching them how to sort out, um, and or professionally the blame.
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Um, so immediately, you know, a gut knee jerk reaction, like I said earlier, um, uh,
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we need to train the physician who wrote the air incorrectly and, you know, slap him on the hand and say, you can't.
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You shouldn't write a medication error. Wrong. Right. Um, and then the nurse, you know, she should be.
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Um, her license should be taken away because she administered a medication that caused such grave harm to a patient.
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Um, but stepping back and saying what was wrong with the system that allowed that, er to happen?
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Right. And where is the responsibility of other practitioners?
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So should pharmacy play a role in that process or that system?
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Um, should hospital administration, um, have invested in alerts in their electronic medical record that prevent those kind of errors from happening?
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It kind of makes them step back and say, what?
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How interprofessional are we all responsible for the care of that patient and the harm that came to that patient,
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and not necessarily just the practitioner who was closest to the ER.
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Right. It doesn't just lay squarely at someone's feet. It's very much like taking a look at, you know, again,
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like the processes and what are what are things we can do better obviously to ensure this doesn't happen again.
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But of course it doesn't. It's not one person's fault necessarily. And none of that those.
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Providers intended for that air to air and for that harm to happen.
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And that's a big, um, a big piece of that, right?
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Yeah. So that's how, um, I, I think I bring my Six Sigma process another way that I've done it outside of the classroom.
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Are you interested? Absolutely. In that. Yeah.
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So, um, we we inherited a course or modules that are implanted into a course, um, from a study that was done with our prior provost, Gigi Smith.
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Right. Um, and so these modules are used across different colleges and, and different programs.
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And what used to happen is that the faculty would send a list of students to our admin assistant,
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and then she would have those students added to the modules, and we would set the due dates,
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and we would email the students,
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and then we would run reports and who's completed all the work that they were supposed to complete and send it back to the faculty.
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And. It just seemed like a lot of back and forth unnecessarily.
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It wasn't very efficient. And so I worked with our Brightspace support team and met with the different faculty and said,
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and with our education technologist, or what do we call this, our ed tech, ed tech or a tech people and a tech?
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So this can be embedded directly into the course so that.
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You don't have to worry about sending a list, and we don't have to worry about giving you a completion report and hoping that
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you have a chance to look at it and open it before the due date of the course,
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and that we've been doing it now for two semesters, that it has worked so well.
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I think the faculty is happy because it's just there in their course and it's just like any other module.
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The students are happier because they're like, who was this Sarah person?
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Never heard of her before. I mean, is she. Yeah. Yeah.
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Um, and so that was just a Six Sigma process of process mapping, um, and brainstorming and coming up with a solution that everybody could live with.
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I think that's that's a great example because obviously it made everybody a lot happier.
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And even though it was just, you know, um. Like just a process around, like enrollment and making sure like they were, you know,
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getting the work done, but in a way that was less like, uh, cumbersome to them, both faculty and students.
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Like, that's a huge win across across the board. Yeah, I think that's great.
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Um, I want to I want to switch gears to kind of end the conversation here once more.
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Um, I want to talk about I because you've done a lot of work around AI.
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Um, particularly around I want to start with a couple things.
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So I want to talk a little about, um, your work around, uh, AI literacy, and then also, um, the AI Institute,
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and then we'll dig a little deeper, um, into this, a couple of things to, uh, uh, in the conversation.
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So they kind of go hand in hand. Um, and if you're not familiar with asking you, it's a national organization.
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Um, they do a lot of support to, um, different institutions and offer a lot of ongoing training and resources.
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Um, and what they had put together in, um, 24 or 25 was what they called in a,
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uh, institute looking at how AI is being integrated into higher education.
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And we were fortunate enough to be able to have a team that participated in that AI institute.
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but MUSC had just finished their one MUSC strategic plan, and in that were several, um, components that could be directly impacted by AI integration.
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And so President's Council said, oh, we have a team working with asking you in the AI Institute,
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we want to produce a, um, module for everyone to learn about AI.
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It's not just ChatGPT. There are so many other aspects machine learning.
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Um, that that could be included in AI.
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And then, um, just to Goodwin, who is our, our chief AI officer, heard about that and said,
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well, I think this would be good to go to the entire enterprise, right.
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Um, so a little bit out of our wheelhouse and thinking about training not just students and faculty and staff within the university,
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but researchers and clinical staff who are in the medical center.
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Um, and so that was our first step.
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And in putting that together, we had to investigate what is AI literacy.
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What do we want people to know about AI, um, and how it will be changing our world no matter where you work.
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Right. Um, within the MUSC umbrella. And so that was our first step into it.
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Um, so a plug if you haven't taken, um, that module, um, you can just Google AI and, um, your learning, um, and it will pop up.
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You can take the course. Right? Um, but then the next year we decided we need to continue to do this.
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And in that time, um, we did add Carson to the group, Carson Mills from sector, which was a great add.
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We also added at least Nissan, um, who is through Catl and the director of AI integration into education.
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And we were able to really build, um, some robust tools.
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The first year, the College of Health Professions also had a team in the AI Institute,
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and that was really helpful because we had, um, people there learning their networks, their connections, who added to it.
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So we came up with, um, something that I think most of the faculty and students are getting to know is getting integrated into courses more and more,
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and that's that AI acceptable use framework, right?
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Yeah. Which is really I think. Important.
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So. How? How can I use AI to augment my learning?
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Right. Right. Um, students want to know that I really believe students do not want to shortcut their learning.
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They realize how important what they are learning is, right, and how valuable it's going to be to them in the future.
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But they're busy. They're overloaded. Right? And of course, it's human nature to look for.
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How can I make my learning more efficient, more efficient?
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How do I. Exactly. So helping give them frameworks for how I can help augment their learning.
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Um, Casey does a great job of helping them.
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Like, how can you use AI to help make study questions?
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And what's a good prompt? And how do you know that they're going to be valuable to you in.
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Um, so those were some of the things that we continued to focus on moving forward.
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Um, we piloted Poodle Box.
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Yeah. And, um, I think that was really important, allowing people from all over campus to be a part of it.
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Um, providing AI and education research grants.
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So if you're thinking about that, there are there is money and funding available for how you can incorporate AI into your education.
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Look into that.
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And then to Lane advocated and got us the Digital Education Council or we call them the DSC membership, which has so much training whitepapers.
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They do surveys constantly getting the pulse of what students think about AI, what faculty think about AI because it is changing so fast.
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And so I think those resources we were able to validate and review through the AI Institute.
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Yeah. So clearly there's a ton of work being done around AI.
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Um, and I really appreciate you giving a really nice overview of all of, like, the large initiatives that you've, um, uh, been a part of civically,
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you know, the course and then talking about the, um,
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the integration framework or the literacy frameworks so students understand and I couldn't agree more.
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I think, I think students, um, especially the graduate level, they do understand how important their learning is.
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They, um, know that they're going to have real world impacts.
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You know, they leave here and they go out into the world. Um, so I do I do agree, I think they take it very seriously.
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And I but I also think it's good to have, um, I used term guardrails around, around.
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I think that's so important. Um, because, I mean, there are instances where, you know, it makes maybe more sense to, uh,
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to use AI in a different way versus, um, like more in depth versus just surface level, or, you know,
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how much how much of your, um, perspective or viewpoints need to be part of an assignment versus how much of that can
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come from AI in terms of like maybe providing an outline or just ideas or brainstorming,
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right. Um, so I love it.
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Um, uh, Mary Smith and I teach a course in graduate studies, and it's something that we've used in our course last semester for the first time,
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and I'm looking forward to using it again this semester, because I think there's a myth's immense value in it.
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Um, particularly as students, I think are searching for answers around, like, how can I actually use these large language models?
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What's acceptable? Um, I want to drill down further, more into just your specific, um,
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perspectives and experiences on AI and what kind of what kind of close out around around these points of conversation.
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Um, so since AI has become prevalent, what's been your perception on how how it's changed,
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how faculty approach teaching or how students experience learning?
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Can you talk a little about just your general kind of experiences with that? So I, I see, um.
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I see positive. And I think I'll just focus on the positive.
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Yeah. There's so much conversation around the the dangers.
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And I think there are some dangers or challenges.
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Um, but we have used, um, I one way in our interprofessional courses, and we talked earlier about how part of learning education,
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um, interprofessional education is around roles and responsibilities.
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Right. And we have a ton of programs, and we cover a wide breadth of health professions here at MUSC.
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But we still have some key health professions that we don't have programs for.
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So far, dental medicine students. We don't have dental hygienist who are really going to be team members.
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They work with right on a really clear base, right?
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Um, we don't have a social work program, and there are social workers everywhere.
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We don't have, um, language interpreters, uh, for our, um.
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And even, um, child life specialists that we think about in pediatrics, because that's my background.
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And so we have a I simulation where a student can go in and choose an avatar.
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Oh, and a a role or a profession that they may not be familiar with or that we may not have here.
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Who's not part of the team they are talking to and learn from them?
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What is it that you do? How would I interact with you in the future?
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What might that look like? Right. Um. And I think students find that valuable to have that experience.
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Absolutely. Um, to learn about other professions that they may not easily be able to to go out and find.
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Now with, um. And we've asked them like.
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Would you prefer in person?
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And the majority of them say, yeah, I would prefer to interview someone one on one, but do I have time or are they readily available?
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Can I get on their calendar now? So this gives them a step up.
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So when they do meet someone face to face, they have a little bit of knowledge and background to inform that conversation.
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And I hope we see that is helpful in the students have provided good feedback about how we use it.
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Absolutely.
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I think I think any way you can, you know, support that, um, jumping off point and those conversations like that, background knowledge can be so key.
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And how how those interactions start, you know, you start to have this conversation with people.
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And if they understand, well, you know, you have an idea of kind of like what they do.
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And I think that's extremely valuable. Um, I think that I think that's amazing.
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So to kind of close this out here, what do you see as the next steps for MUSC in terms of AI literacy or implementation.
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So where do we. Essentially the question is where do we go from here. Yeah.
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I wish I had a crystal ball, right? Yeah, that'd be great. Um, I think where we go is.
380
00:41:00,862 --> 00:41:05,572
And this is something that, um. Because of some of the, um.
381
00:41:06,862 --> 00:41:11,452
The webinars and, um, the conferences that I've been able to attend.
382
00:41:11,932 --> 00:41:16,461
So I'm, um, one of the education innovation advocates this year.
383
00:41:16,462 --> 00:41:21,382
And I had, um, the opportunity to go to South by Southwest.
384
00:41:21,422 --> 00:41:34,142
Oh. Do you. And the conversation there and talking about prepping our future workforce for moving in to, um, this.
385
00:41:35,252 --> 00:41:42,982
The future and what it might look like with AI, um, was we need education,
386
00:41:42,992 --> 00:41:50,192
needs to be in communication with the people who are hiring and employing people later on.
387
00:41:50,222 --> 00:41:59,912
Um, and I think that we have that opportunity baked in right here at MUSC because we are an academic health science center.
388
00:41:59,912 --> 00:42:03,002
Right. And it is part of our strategic plan.
389
00:42:03,012 --> 00:42:09,962
So really looking at not what I think should inform education,
390
00:42:10,322 --> 00:42:18,182
but pulling in the people who actually do the work and are looking down the road or purchasing tools.
391
00:42:18,632 --> 00:42:21,782
Um, that could be AI enhanced.
392
00:42:22,202 --> 00:42:25,522
Um, what do our students need to know about that? Right.
393
00:42:25,652 --> 00:42:33,032
They're moving out. What are the limitations, the guardrails that you talked about for that in their practice?
394
00:42:33,572 --> 00:42:43,592
Um, how do they evaluate AI in their practice and whether it's helpful or their bias is they are right.
395
00:42:43,742 --> 00:42:46,412
Um, a chance for error. Mhm.
396
00:42:46,622 --> 00:42:57,512
Uh, those are things that I think we need to be focused on and helping our students be able to manage as they get out into practice.
397
00:42:58,652 --> 00:43:01,832
It won't look the same next year. That looks. No.
398
00:43:01,862 --> 00:43:07,052
It's constantly constantly evolving. Um, and this kind of leads me sorry to a bonus question.
399
00:43:07,232 --> 00:43:16,682
Um, do you think that, um, all colleges, whether now or in the near future, um, should have AI education baked into their curriculum?
400
00:43:16,682 --> 00:43:19,682
Is that going to be just a necessity if it's not already?
401
00:43:21,192 --> 00:43:27,312
I think there is some literacy components, definitely, that need to be baked in, right?
402
00:43:27,732 --> 00:43:35,352
Um, not so much teaching about the functionality of a certain product or a platform,
403
00:43:35,952 --> 00:43:42,522
but like I said, how are you evaluating those tools and the benefit that it can give?
404
00:43:42,702 --> 00:43:54,072
Yeah. And it really is, um, continuing to let students know that, um, AI tools are great if you're an expert.
405
00:43:55,022 --> 00:44:09,202
But if you're a novice, you still have some opportunity to build your own knowledge and experience before you can really evaluate an AI tool, right?
406
00:44:09,842 --> 00:44:13,952
Or use it as impactful as you might want to.
407
00:44:14,372 --> 00:44:22,782
Um, and so how do we. What literacy foundations do you need to be able to to do that?
408
00:44:22,842 --> 00:44:28,571
Do you have to move forward? Um, yeah. Anybody listening? You know, if you don't, if you feel like you're a novice and ah, you haven't,
409
00:44:28,572 --> 00:44:32,502
you know, done much with it, um, I'll say it's never too late yet to get started.
410
00:44:32,532 --> 00:44:38,652
You know, you can always. Um, don't feel hopeless if you have interacted a lot with AI, because that's okay.
411
00:44:38,652 --> 00:44:41,621
And there's there's plenty of opportunity to grow that knowledge.
412
00:44:41,622 --> 00:44:47,892
And you know that I would say that opportunity is just going to continue to increase, you know, over and over and over.
413
00:44:47,902 --> 00:44:51,792
Um, and I'm okay if you don't want to use.
414
00:44:51,842 --> 00:44:53,282
Yeah, absolutely. Yep. Absolutely.
415
00:44:53,442 --> 00:45:04,482
Uh, in your education and your classroom, um, but understanding why you chose not to is just as important as understanding why I chose to use it.
416
00:45:04,512 --> 00:45:07,632
Yeah. Informed, informed decision making. And in terms of, of its use.
417
00:45:07,642 --> 00:45:10,802
Um, so please, just I mean experiment. Yeah.
418
00:45:10,872 --> 00:45:20,442
Learn about it because it helps form the conversation of where we want to go in the future and definitely look to our clinical,
419
00:45:20,832 --> 00:45:25,211
um, colleagues on the medical center side for what is coming down the pike.
420
00:45:25,212 --> 00:45:29,172
How can we help inform our students for their their future practice?
421
00:45:29,292 --> 00:45:34,092
Awesome. Um, so I think we'll leave the conversation there. Um, it was insightful, to say the least.
422
00:45:34,092 --> 00:45:37,482
So I want to thank you so much. Um, for being here today. Thank you. Alex.
